Jay Kimble

Jay,

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<br>This is awesomely put.  Some of my best friends and closest family members are Christian, and I have the utmost respect for them...  The reason?  They have respect for me, and don't try to attack my points of view.  In fact, they don't even offer up theirs, unless asked.  I think it's a maturity thing.  Hopefully the nine mis-guided TechEd attendees will read this.  

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<br>Thanks!

What is there to apologize about? Reading that kid's post, the young folks who approached him were not disrespectful. The only issue I see is with this immature Rory who somehow thinks God is responsible for everything that went wrong in his life. God gives us choice, we made a choice in the garden and we make choices now. Our choices are what cause our circumstances not God. People die, people are deaf, in many cases things we consider bad actually strengthen us and society, is that a bad thing?

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<br>Then you apologize, how do you think Christianity got where it is today, being one of the main religions in the world. Through evangelical efforts. Talk to relatives of missionaries who lost family members due to evangelizing in hostile environments. I guess they're nothing but over zealous fools according to you.

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<br>Christians shouldn't apologize for their beliefs, if Christianity is so wrong, or as those replies go on the site for the uneducated, why are there so many educated people who believe. Maybe because everytime we learn more about ourselves we realize there is some intelligent hand behind our creation. DNA, genetic code, all display some intelligence behind it. Evolution is proving to be false and now Hollywood and the rest of the left has to make movies trying to come up with some other reason we're here (Mission to Mars for example).

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<br>You do know there are other countries in the world where if you don't believe as they do, you die. Just ask many of the Christain missionaries. When was the last time evangelicals, said &quot;Hey I want to talk to you about Jesus, and by the way, if you don't agree I am going to kill you and your family.&quot; Give me a break.

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<br>You do not have the power to apologize for anyone except yourself. You're falling right into the trap of passing responsibilty to someone or something else. Wake up, stand proud, and know what's right. You need to look deep inside yourself and see what it is you believe in.

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<br>Sounds to me as if these young evangelists are just excited about a great thing, what's wrong with that?

Fair Warning P.S. - This is a petpeeve of mine, so I'm pretty passionate about it. If you are of the true &quot;love thy neighbor&quot; flavor of christianity, then none of this should offend. If you are a crusader or zionist, this'll probably bother you to no end. End Warning.

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<br>If more people that called themselves Christian were also critical thinkers, they might actually see the hypocrisy of their ways - not all of them, mind you. I've met some very christian Christians - folks that did &quot;love their neighbor&quot; and &quot;judged not&quot;.

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<br>On the other hand, the prevalent perversion seems to be a very Roman/Nazi sort of &quot;proclaim fealty to our lord or else!&quot; (un)Holy Crusades style of &quot;love&quot;.  

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<br>Don't even get me started on the zionist christians that don't bother to educate themselves on the muck they shovel.

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<br>Grr.

<br>Can you tell this is a hotbutton for me?

<br>I like the stuff Jesus taught. It's a shame that more of his &quot;followers&quot; don't actually follow his teachings. Although I try to stick to a lot of what he said, a closer analysis of his teachings shows that he didn't have a monopoly on his teachings.  Pretty much, if more people investigated things for themselves instead of being zombie-meme-spreaders, the world would be a much happier place, I think.

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<br>Just grr. Rawr.  And now that I've surrounded myself with kindling, I'll go crawl into some heathen, pagan hole somewhere. ;)

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J.M.

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<br>Christianity got where it is today by going to the lion's singing the praises of God (that's how we converted the Roman empire... No, I'm not Catholic before you ask).

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<br>I have run into many &quot;kids&quot; like Rory.  What happens is that we beat them up, and then they harden and turn out like Rory.  No, i don't toally think that the people talking to him were necessarily disrespectful, but the conversation sounded (at least from Rory) fake to me.  You want to convert someone?  Love them first!

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<br>BTW, for the record Jesus said there is One way to heaven (yes, I believe in that exclusivity, and yes, I hurt for the people around me who are lost).  What I try to do is what Jesus would do.. get close enough to love on them, try to give them advice to steer them on the right path... confront them when they are flat out wrong... My non-christian friends really do know where I stand, so I don't need to whip out the biggest bible I own to beat them up.  That is callous uncaring, and (dare I say it) pharisaical.

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<br>Also, I would love to have a friendly debate with Rory, but it would have to be a friendly debate (one in which both parties agree to have the discussion... )

<br>As a Christian, you are commanded to spread the Gospel. However, this doesn't necessarily mean you take it upon yourself to climb a rock and start preaching.

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<br>It's all about having a walk with the Lord and being able to hear his instructions. There will be times when the Holy Spirit compels you to go to say something to someone. Perhaps the Lord is working in that person's heart and that's why you feel the Lord telling you to go speak to that person. I believe the Lord makes divine appointments and puts Christians in the right place at the right time.

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<br>But too many Christians walk in their own flesh, decide to leave God out of it while they go do &quot;favors&quot; for God by screaching at anyone within earshot. They aren't doing any favors for God, nor other Christians.  We are to live our lives as examples. That's the best way to open the door to people who don't believe. They see the peace, they see joy in spite of circumstances and wonder &quot;How can I be like that?&quot;

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<br>Hey, if the guy that met with Rory really felt the Lord was calling him to go say something to Rory then so be it.

Right on, Mark.

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<br>Unfortunately too often the case is that the person is doing this because they have been trained on how to lead a total stranger to Christ.  There is a fine line between being ready to give an answer and attacking someone with it.

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<br>I'm not totally sure on what happened with Rory (as I wasn't there), but the situation sounds all too familiar.

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<br>We're talking about this situation.  Over Easter weekend I felt led to put up a more &quot;religious&quot; post.  One of the comments was from a Muslim trying to use a scare tactic on me and my (very few) readers... I didn't appreciate it, so I deleted the comment.

<br>Want to agree with many of the points brought up in these comments, but particularly Mark's. I really do think you should establish a relationship of trust with someone before launching into religious discussion, and then only as the Spirit directs you.

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<br>People really do think they are doing God's work when in reality they are out on their own doing what they *feel* his work is, and never really consult Him about it. When this happens, you are sure to fail. However, if done meekly and with the Spirit, miraculous things can happen. Overbearing preaching rarely does the job. Living as Christ lived, and being &quot;ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear&quot; (1 Peter 3:15) is the most effective way of sharing the gospel. *Sharing* the gospel, rather than preaching it, goes a long way. There is a quote I really like, which sums up the feeling I am trying to get across:

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<br>&quot;More people are flattered into virtue than bullied out of vice.&quot;

<br>— Robert Smith Surtees, English novelist and editor (1803-1864)

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Jay -

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<br>&quot;Rory, I want to apologize for every callous idiotic attempt that every Christian has ever made at trying to “reach“ you&quot;

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<br>I wouldn't actually say that &quot;every&quot; Christian has done this. In fact, the *majority* of Christians I've known have never bothered me at all. There have been a couple, but we usually wind up discussing things to some acceptable conclusion.

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<br>Other than that, though, thanks :)

&quot;As a Christian, you are commanded to spread the Gospel.&quot;

<br>By whom?  

<br>It's been a while since I read the new testament, so I'm not being (completely) snarky.  Exactly how do you define &quot;spread&quot; as well as &quot;the Gospel&quot;?  

<br>I just don't remember Jesus commanding every christian in the world to convert the non-christians to worship him.  

<br>I also don't recall the Gospels having been written until long after his death.  Maybe we're defining &quot;Gospel&quot; and &quot;Gospels&quot; differently.

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<br>What I do recall from as far back as I can remember is Jesus &quot;commanding&quot; that his followers follow one commandment above all others - &quot;Love thy neighbor&quot; - and that this single commandment encompassed and superceded all others.  

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<br>Not all are called to witness. Simply being a christian doesn't necessarily mean you must evangelize in order to get into heaven.

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<br>Assuming you believe the teachings of that particular book.

J.M. -

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<br>&quot;The only issue I see is with this immature Rory who somehow thinks God is responsible for everything that went wrong in his life.&quot;

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<br>If God created me, then God *is* responsible. I had absolutely no say whatsoever in my being here. If I have issues with this planet, then I have issues with God.

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<br>&quot;God gives us choice, we made a choice in the garden and we make choices now.&quot;

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<br>The garden was cruel. What kind of a petty God would create a trap like that?

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<br>&quot;Our choices are what cause our circumstances not God. People die, people are deaf, in many cases things we consider bad actually strengthen us and society, is that a bad thing?&quot;

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<br>If society was strengthened by the fact that my sister had to grow up without being able to hear, and later by my mother having a stroke, then good for society.

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<br>But, society never asked if it could use my family as a spiritual workout room.

That's a great quote, Jason, and I'd like to translate it, since the language can be confusing, and it's easy for humans to interpret the text differently due to the language barrier.

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<br>&quot;ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear&quot;

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<br>Translation, as I see it.

<br>If someone asks you why you seem happy or hopeful, THEN tell him of me, but do so in a non-aggressive manner.

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<br>This seems to me nothing like a lot of evangelizing I've seen and heard of.

Rory,

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<br>When I said &quot;every christian&quot; I didn't mean this in the sense that all of us get together in our secret religious meetings and discuss how we can all specifically target Rory Blythe for our evangelistic intentions; I meant every one of us who have targetted you (and others like you) in so callous a manner... (but you knew that) &lt;grin&gt;

Rory,

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<br>I understand your personal tragedy; I've had a few myself.  I would love to discuss this, but the reality is that I'm not about to do it over the internet... I spent too much time in life isolated from people... it's easy to give a pat answer to a stranger... it's a different thing to try to answer a question to a friend face to face...

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<br>Sometime, we should meet... now if I could just get the money to go to a conference (and convince my wife that it would be a good thing)...

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<br>Jay

Tom,

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<br>In Mark 16:15, Jesus says &quot;Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation&quot; The gospel being defined that Christ came and died as an atonement for sins.

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<br>And you're right that Jesus didn't command Christians to convert the entire world. In fact, he didn't command anyone to convert anyone else because it's impossible to do. All he commanded was that Christians spread the message of  Jesus' birth, life and death and leave the rest to God. His messages and acts of love were a demonstration of his love of mankind to save them from their sin.

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<br>In Luke 14:23, Jesus tells his disciples to go the &quot;hedges and the highways&quot;.

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<br>Now, many people don't believe that and that's fine. But those scriptures, as well as many others, are the foundations for why Christians share their beliefs with others. But as I said earlier, sharing your beliefs doesn't mean it needs to be a &quot;hit and run&quot; attack.

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<br>&quot;Maybe we're defining &quot;Gospel&quot; and &quot;Gospels&quot; differently. &quot;

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<br>I just now caught this in your post, Tom. Sorry for the confusion.

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<br>Gospel, meaning &quot;good news&quot; in Greek,  is what I mentioned above about Christ. Whereas, gospels (plural) is traditionally meant to mean the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that are dedicated to the life of Jesus.

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For me there is no question that Jesus has commanded us to spread the good news of His saving grace in the atonement that He bought with His own blood on the cross.  The question that we are looking at here is how do we as Christians go about sharing the gospel without offending (and sometimes permanently alienating) people.  

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<br>I believe that it's hard to be taken seriously if you walk up to someone in the street and tell them that they're going to hell if they don't accept Jesus now.  Does that mean that Jesus never wants us to share the good news with a stranger?  NO!  I think there are times when it is appropriate, but we need to be careful.  What I do believe is that our witness is best expressed through our actions.

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<br>Throughout the gospels (meaning the books written about his life (since there has been some confusion)) Jesus is almost always shown expressing love through actions before He delivers His message.  That's what His miracles were about.  They weren't used to impress people with His power.  They were simply a way for Jesus to express His sincere love for someone and through that love then share the purpose for His comming.  To help us to re-establish our relationship with God.  

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<br>That's the point right there.  Christianity is about our relationship with God.  It is hard to convince someone or model that relationship without having first developed a relationship with the person you're witnessing to.

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