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Ever Notice?

So I'm sitting on the toilet today, and the damn thing plugs again.  You see, any time you use more than 2 wads of paper, the thing plugs.  Now for those of you who aren't American, you need to understand that most new houses here have these "eco friendly" toilets that are supposedly better on water usage than the old solid gallon flush ones.  Naturally, since these tend to plug with little provocation, you often end up using two, maybe even three (as was the case since I was plunging today) to do the job that a single flush should do.  So in the end, the government regulation in my life is generating the opposite of its stated intent.

This got the wheels spinning, and I realized that there are many places where government or community involvement is well meaning, but generates the opposite of its stated intent.  Take for instance the current crisis in the middle east.  The UN is scrambling to make yet another cease fire resolution.  However looking at middle eastern history there have been tons of cease fires before.  If cease fires led to lasting peace, the middle east would be a utopia of peacefullness.  By the same token, raising minimum wage doesn't push poor people into the middle class, and the more you raise taxes, the lower government tax revenue seems to get (see how Bush's tax cuts actually increased government tax revenue, since more money was left in the market to grow and be taxed).

Now, being this is a coding  blog, I wouldn't be posting these thoughts unless I could tie it back to development, and so I shall.  In the web world, we have our own series of standards for html, xhtml, css etc etc etc.  Have these standards actually made web development any easier?  Not really.  Why not?  The whole purpose of these standards was to make the process of building web pages easy and allow users to use any browser they like.  However all the various browser vendors continue to go their own way... they think that their way is superior and are betting that the standards will turn to comform to them instead of the intended effect which is the opposite.  A libertarian mindset would be to leave things as is, encourage standards but not require their implementation.  A big government perspective would be to mandate standards and legally enforce them.  However, what would this do to competition and innovation?  Something to think about...

You often see the same thing happen in the open source community.  A project "forks" because developers can't agree on a standard way of doing things, and I've often felt that although this generates choice, it undermines the strength of the community since you have now cut your installed base with the fork.  Where there were once many, there will now be fewer, the developers that leave take their expertise with them and this needs to be replaced or compensated for which can harm the progress of the original project.

It is the one big strength that Microsoft leverages in software though, all of their applications talk to eachother, and talk well.  They have internal standards that for the most part they stick to, and you tend to know what you are going to get.  In the end, I think this is the trump card that is going to keep the OSS community in the minority, they can't seem to agree to implement standards and interfaces for the sake of competition.

Print posted @ Monday, August 07, 2006 12:18 AM


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# re: Ever Notice?

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You think too much.  Just buy a bigger thrown and don't worry about the rest.

;)

8/7/2006 3:52 AM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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Oops, that would be throne, nothing should be thrown in the bathroom.

8/7/2006 3:53 AM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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Wow, I was all ready to get fired up about low flush toilets then you took a fork of your own.. coding blog who cares, these toilets must be BANISHED!!!

8/7/2006 5:58 AM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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Eric, I won't comment on the political intro -- but I'm not sure that I agree with your point about internet standards.  Specifically your point that html xhtml css standards have not made web development easier.  What evidence do you have to back this up?  

My "condensed history of browsers" goes like this: First there were "parallel websites" where developers created one site for Netscape and one site for IE.  Then Netscape died, Firefox rose, Opera appeared along with capable Macintosh browsers and IE Mac died.  Now we only need to only code one site with CSS hacks (mostly) for IE6.  With IE7 on the way and being pushed via Windows Update, the hacks diminish and we can start deveoping one site to all browsers.

With IE7 adopting the international standards browsers are converging not diverging.  Where do you see them diverging?

8/7/2006 11:56 AM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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IE7 is a lot closer to firefox et al than 6, but they still don't agree all the way.  Particularily when it comes to the CSS2 and 3 standards.  Firefox is still quirky with the way it handles element heights and IE7 is not.  Safari still can't handle atlas because it handles xml/callbacks different than any other browser.  There are other examples... certainly the next generation is closer, but still not quite there.  Of course, you'll still be coding hacks until all the IE6 distributions are going, and historically speaking that takes a while.  Not everyone is on windows XP after all.

I do see the distribution of IE7 being held back on the corporate side by network admins that don't allow it for compatibility reasons.  Take the internal app (web) that we are going to redesign over the next year.  I tried to open it in IE7 and the app was so badly designed that it will not even function.  So we can't adopt IE7 until we redo the UI.

8/7/2006 12:45 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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Yeah I remember you plugged the toilet at TechED. It must be you!!

8/7/2006 4:24 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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Toilets should have two flush buttons, one for #1 that uses almost no water, and one for #2 which fires water down with such force that it could put out a lit match.

8/7/2006 4:45 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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When it comes to toilets: a lot of Dutch ones do have 2 buttons, they match your wish.

When it comes to standards: I think there is enormous progress; when you compare how the result of a default VS 2003 web page behaves in a non IE browser compared the way a default VS 2005 page behaves.

But when you change the default setting of a VS 2003 and make it less dependent on all kinds of gimmicks IE has a VS 2003 page can behave pretty well in a variety of browseres.

Imho the best way to do is don't assume anything, like some kind of standard being implemented. And when there is no escaping take the simplest subset of the most widely implemented standard which works for you.

8/7/2006 6:47 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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> So I'm sitting on the toilet today, and the damn thing plugs again.

Alternatively, you could increase the amount of fibre in your diet. :-)

But seriously, I think part of the problem with toilets in the US is in the design of the u-bend used. Toilets over here in Ireland use far less water in the basin and the tank and rarely if ever block unless you wedge it full of stuff. The u-bend is shaped differently so that everything needs less force to send it off.

8/7/2006 7:08 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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And I must say, I'm a bit puzzled: are you saying that the dictatorial route (which MS takes because, as everybody knows, businesses are run by and large as dictatorships, not democracies) is good and the more laissez-faire route (given their ability to fork) taken by OS projects is bad, or is it the other way round?

And on the topic of choice: www.amazon.co.uk/.../0060005688

8/7/2006 7:21 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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What I am saying, is that standards are only effective if they are enforced.  The W3C etc set standards, but have no means of enforcing them so we end up with a myriad of browsers that don't behave the same.

On the other hand, a standard like OLE which was created and rigorously enforced by Microsoft has been quite successful.  You can drag and drop just about anything into anything.  This is so because you didn't see some group of developers get all pissy about OLE and go off and create AOLE (another ole), fragmenting the user base and weakening the standards.  On the other hand, this is a crippling force to innovation in that particular space, as I pointed out in my post.

At the end of the day, I just say beware of hardcore enforcements of standards because of the potential damage you do to innovation, but at the same time, beware the abundance of choice since it can be just as destructive.

8/7/2006 8:32 PM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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The gripe on browsers doesn't really hold water though. Safari, KHTML, FireFox and Opera are relatively speaking, all fairly close to eachother. IE is the odd man out as far as standards go in that group.

The open-source browsers also happen to see a lot more innovation. Firefox didn't have SVG support pre 1.5. Apple created the canvas tag in... Safari 1.1? And now it too has (alpha-ish) support in Firefox. I'm not sure of the status of either of those in IE7. I'd hope at least SVG... but I'd be surprised if the canvas tag made it in.

Either way, in this example, the open-source browsers are generally held in higher regard concerning Security. They're more innovative and respond to change faster. They're more standards compliant.

Were it not for IE6 for example, you could use CSS2 pseudo-element-selectors to your hearts content (which _really_ helps to expand the idea of seperating content from layout). CSS2 and 3 bring *a lot* to the table.

So the existing standards can be both a benchmark for compatibility, and innovative. So the notion that they are handcuffing either seems far-fetched to me. Not that there isn't the potential I suppose, but it sure doesn't seem to have played out that way, so it seems a risky bet.

8/10/2006 2:06 AM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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Nicely said...however, its just a matter of time when a new company emerges...taking the like-minded developers from the OSS world and try and beat MS.

-Sashi

8/10/2006 2:28 AM |

# re: Ever Notice?

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"The gripe on browsers doesn't really hold water though. Safari, KHTML, FireFox and Opera are relatively speaking, all fairly close to eachother."

I see someone has never tried to do ajax in safari.  =)

8/10/2006 9:57 PM |

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